Marines Urinating on Dead Taliban: How Low Will We Go?
Posted by Ethan Casey on January 13, 2012 · 35 Comments
I haven’t fully digested the disgusting news that U.S. Marines have been caught on video urinating on dead Taliban fighters in Afghanistan, so this post is not offered as a coherent think-piece. But what is there to think about, anyway? What is there to say, really, except that there’s absolutely no excuse? No excuse for the policy makers and officers, but neither is there one for the brutalized young perpetrators. Their lowly enlisted status doesn’t excuse them; we should offer them compassion, but not absolution, for the guilt they carry. The next time I’m in a U.S. airport and the passengers break out in applause when the gate agent or flight attendant congratulates “our men and women in uniform,” I’ll remember this incident.
In keeping with its maddening, self-regarding role as the American Pravda, the New York Times worries in a hand-wringing “analysis” that “the images could incite anti-American sentiment at a particularly delicate moment in the decade-old Afghan war.” Well, how could they not have that effect? And why shouldn’t they?
Jafar “Jeff” Siddiqui, a Pakistani-American acquaintance of mine who lives near Seattle, where I live, writes a reliably candid blog called “PenJihad.” In his latest installment, aptly titled “Marines Urinating on Dead Muslims,” Jeff offers this challenge to his fellow American Muslims: “There is no action against the anti-Muslim hate-mongering climate in this country because we Muslims do not do anything to make ourselves politically significant so, why should anyone care about us?” This echoes my own 2010 article “Muslims in America: Time for a Movement?” The question mark is important, because I’m not a Muslim, and I won’t presume to tell people who are more vulnerable in American society than I am what they should do. But I am an American, and I still believe, as I wrote in that article, that “Muslims have a historic opportunity to play an important leadership role in American society today” – not only for their own sake, but for the sake of our politically rudderless and morally feckless society as a whole.
I happen just this week to have submitted to the “Books & Authors” section of the Pakistani newspaper Dawn my long-overdue review of a powerful book, a collection of writings from Indian periodicals and websites compiled and edited by Sanjay Kak, titled Until My Freedom Has Come: The New Intifada in Kashmir. Congratulations to Penguin India for publishing such a book. In one piece, “Kashmir’s Abu Ghraib?”, contributor Shuddhabrata Sengupta describes an appalling YouTube video tagged “brothers watch, sisters please do not watch” and popularly known as the “Kashmir Naked Parade Video,” apparently shot by an offending Indian soldier himself with a cell phone. There’s no need for me to describe the video; you get the picture. “At least in the pitched street battles, we see adversaries, albeit unequal adversaries, policemen, paramilitaries, soldiers one side, and the angry tide of stone-pelters on the other,” writes Sengupta.
Here, there are no adversaries. Prisoners are not in a position to be adversarial when surrounded by heavily armed men in uniform. What we see instead are unarmed captives, people who are in no position to threaten or endanger the security forces. That such people should be made to undergo a humiliation such as this is proof of the extent to which the forces of the Indian state in Kashmir have become brutalized by the experience of serving in Kashmir.
Ultimately it’s not – and shouldn’t be seen as – being about what Americans or Indians do to Muslims, but what any of us are willing to do, and be seen doing, to each other, and – framed more constructively – what we might still do to reclaim our humanity. I have some thoughts on that, which will need to wait for another time (soon). For now, here are some of the extremely hard questions that Sengupta raises:
While the making of atrocity images such as these have for long been a part of the apparatus of violence, the ubiquity of mobile phones as recording devices, and of internet-based social networking sites as vectors of circulation has taken the phenomenon to a new level. We have no clear understanding of what motivates the making of these images. Are they meant as evidence of a “job well done” – to be shown to superiors who actually sanction torture and humiliation but have no way of assessing their effectiveness or actual operation because of the legal difficulty involved in maintaining official records of “unofficial” secrets? Or, are they simply testosterone-fuelled perversities, operating in the same sphere as MMS messages of pornographic sadism?
Sengupta also asserts that
There is need for further research on questions such as whether or not the makers of these atrocity images are also consciously seeking each other out, both as audiences and as competitors, in a new economy of prestige linked to the capacity to represent and circulate one’s own cruelty. In other words, are the makers of the videos in Kashmir, or in the Jaffna peninsula, aware of, and in some senses seeking to out-do the actions of their peers and predecessors in Abu Ghraib? Also, is there an informal network of know-how, pertaining to techniques for torture and humiliation that lubricates the virtual matrix inhabited by the protagonists of the so-called “global war on terror”, that operates in much the same way as the networks that bring together paedophiles and sex offenders on online platforms in the darker parts of the internet? Finally, how and why do these videos leak out of these networks into the wider public domain? Are there weak, conscience-stricken, anonymous whistle-blowing links at the fringes of even the darkest recesses of power (as is evident from the centre of the WikiLeaks storm) that cannot bear the burden of carrying power’s dirtiest secrets?
But here’s something for Muslims to reflect on: a video of Pakistani soldiers killing captives in the Swat valley was briefly circulated on Facebook as one of Indians killing Kashmiris. Sengupta points out, all too rightly:
The irony of a Pakistani atrocity being briefly misattributed as an Indian one only underscores the fact that when it comes to the everyday operationalization of state terror, the security apparatuses of India and Pakistan aspire to the same low standards, which make it quite possible for those seeking to score a few cheap propaganda points on either side to – deliberately or otherwise – confuse one perpetrator for another.
It goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway, that the U.S. military and security apparatuses obviously aspire to, or at least achieve, the same low standard.
ETHAN CASEY is the author of Alive and Well in Pakistan: A Human Journey in a Dangerous Time (2004) and Overtaken By Events: A Pakistan Road Trip (2010). His next book, Bearing the Bruise: A Life Graced by Haiti, will be published in March 2012. Web:www.ethancasey.com or www.facebook.com/ethancaseyfans
The recent act of a U.S. marine urinating over a corpse is not only appalling but beyond condemnation. Since 2001, many such incidents have surfaced on media, including the inhumane treatment of prisoners at Abu Gharib and Guantanamo. However, the culprits have not been punished often, or severely to prevent any such incidents in the future.
Although it may be true to a certain extent that acts of individuals do not necessarily represent a state, as in this case, the marine might have acted voluntarily, however, if the state allows such elements to operate with impunity, then a state is as much responsible. This creates a further divide between the two worlds. It would be nice for a change if U.S. authorities including Leon Panetta would take strict action against this inhumane act rather than just paying lip service.
Step in the shoes of an American politician…or of any other politician for a moment. S-he has the choice of listening to groups who have money or votes…power or, listening to people who have no voice, who do not take any action when they are affected and who do not use any power of money or vote.
Who do you think would be the side that is heard?
Yes, the people committing the crimes must be punished, but if Muslims wish to actually STOP such things from happening, Muslims need to reach the top with their voice. For that, Muslims need to have internatl cooperation and coordination within their own groups In SPITE of internal conflicts.
Good article Ethan, but I disagree with your title; how do you or anyone else, know the dead men were “Taliban” or, “Insurgents” or, even armed an posing a threat to the soldiers who killed them?
Perhaps it is less challenging to sub-consciously accept that at least, the men were justifiably killed because the killers are “our guys” and therefore, the “Good” guys. The fact remains that the dead men could very well have been the good guys and our guys were simply looking for a kill.
Far too many of the people our guys kill “out there”…the overwhelming numbers, are not proven as hostiles, but simply as “suspected insurgents…innocents, in my book.
While this unforgivable incident underlines the increasing frustration and desperation of the American fighting man who as any soldier in any part of the world will always have my respect because: “Theirs is not to reason why…” I do believe this incident highlights the fault of the apathy that the Pakistani public and the ruling classes exercise on their own. You only have to see the plight of the Pakistani expatriate worker in the Gulf countries, those who have built the gulf with their own hands. Why cannot the Pakistani government speak out for them? Why cannot such incidents as the Marines urinating on dead Afghans be discussed by Pakistani think tanks and solutions found? Why cannot the Pakistani public mould themselves into such a force that their own Government has no choice but to provide adequate answers? The moment their is some atrocity committed, Pakistanis at once start raising a hue and cry and pointing fingers like the ignorant people they are. They look for solutions outside and not within. In the words of Shakespeare “The fault dear Brutus lies not in our stars but within us”.
Yes, Soldiers don’t reason an order and they follow it, so are we assuming here that the implementation of orders, no matter how inhumane are to be respected? Are we implying here that the orders were to desecrate a corpse? and the soldiers who implemented this order, or acted voluntarily deserve a pat on the back? Well in that case, with all due respect to Mr. Aizaz Moin’s earlier comment .. I believe the Nazi soldiers involved in holocaust also deserve his respect? afterall, they were not to reason the authority and follow the orders…
Bad Governance does add to the plight of Pakistanis, but not every inhumane act can be attributed to neither Government’s incompetency nor the differences of its people. If memory serves me right, wasn’t it the United States who was divided against itself even a 100 years after independence? Civil-War, Union vs Confederates? My point here is that it takes time for a state to strengthen its roots, some times it takes a 100 years, some times even more. Pakistan possesses the potential, its people are blessed with unmatched resilience and in due time we will be able to do justice to our potential
However I think people hardly take into account how the United States policy makers have taken their “Manifest Destiny” notion into the 21st century still playing the role of self-proclaimed messiah and the savior of the world. We live in modern times, but we are still following Medieval practices. The might is still right and the weaker is subjugated. The rules have changed, but the game is still the same. United States did win the war against terror (only on media such as Fox News) and any one who possesses even an iota of a clue about ground realities understands that leading into US polls, its leadership is trying to save face, and the acts of “Well respected” soldiers, are the clear symptoms of frustration over a decade of lost war.
In the end, I would only recommend to the policy makers of United States, not to plough seeds of hate throughout the world, because once the hatred accumulates overtime, world peace will be in jeopardy !
Thank you Mr. Tabraiz Marri. First of all my apologies for misplacing my comments. The article clearly refers to Afghan dead and not Pakistanis, so my fault on this account.
If I read your article correctly you refer to the same desperation that I mentioned at the start of my earlier comments and I hope and pray that in pursuing their National Interests worldwide the American Government does not spread hatred against it’s own people worldwide because the Americans that I have met really are great people
Exbition of great moral courage…on your part. No Muslim/Islamic media dared.
But this is NOT new. Muslims have been dehumanized internationally for a while now. This is only the tip of the iceberg. A lot more is NOT known. They are well on the way to urinating on all Muslims, living or dead. This is millennium old Crusader thing. A celebration of momentary victory…for the eventual loser, last hurrah of the defeated.
Raping of Muslim girls in front of their tied up fathers and brothers, and urinating on their dead bodies afterwards has always been the celebration of the Crusader – Iraq and Afghanistan, the latest demonstrations of this trait and tradition.
Pissing on copies of the Noble Koran and using its pages for toilet paper is common in the US. This is even available on youtube for all to see, as is urinating on the pictures of The Prophet. Harangues against Muslims is all over the media…
LOL
Mr Casey, as long as you use your pen to condemn such acts, there is hope. US soldiers should act with grace as is expected of them to maintain their status as citizens of a Super Power.
US soldiers urinating on dead Muslims…! Pakistan’s beloved daughter, highly educated Phd. from MIT, mother of three, Dr. Afifa condemned in US prison for 86 years on unsubstantiated charges. Tortured, repeatedly raped, made pregnant, inoculated with cancer in US prison. Is this the 21st Century Inquisition? Civilization at its best? Or just another example of democracy and Christian West?
Welcome to The Islamic Republic of Pakistan and The United States of America – Now One Nation Under Hypocrisy and Corruption – Without Liberty or Justice…writing a new chapter in humanity that would have made GestapoSS proud and Hitler appear incompetent and naive.
Where are the the Champions of Truth and Justice?
Where is Muhammad Bin Qasim?
Where is Tariq Bin Zaid?
Isn’t the cry against tyranny and the tyrant heard anymore?
Is Allah not Great?
@Aamir: You misunderstand me. First of all, I already have a beard. More importantly, all the things you describe could happen – the Taliban marching into America, etc., whatever horrific scenario you can imagine, and it wouldn’t make me less free than I am. Just as I don’t and won’t acknowledge that my freedom is purchased at the point of gun, by Marines whom I’m asked to revere despite the fact that they urinate on dead people. My freedom is spiritual and psychological, personal to me, not contingent on any circumstances. This is a heavy thing to handle – freedom at the cost of security. You really can’t have both.
@Ethan. Not everyone defines their freedom in that way. I’m willing to bet anything that ‘freedom’ for average Americans involves, at-least in part, the ability to lead a peaceful life without militant Islamists laying down a code of conduct for them, and then making them follow that code, to the letter, at gunpoint. In order to have that, these millions of ordinary Americans need soldiers/military-men who are willing to risk their lives for this purpose. They’re not on vacation in Afghanistan. They’re fighting an enemy that holds nothing more sacred than to kill Americans. Men at war are expected to occasionally yield to animal instincts. Don’t you know anything about the reality that soldiers at war have to deal with every day? Despite everything that they are being put through, are you really going to be a pansy about something like this? Sack up man. There’s a time and a place for acting civilized. A war zone is not it.
@Aamir: Your second message is as unconvincing to me as your first one. Yes, there are extremist Muslims who surely have intentions every bit as extremist and bad as you describe. But that is not most Muslims, and the American presence in Afghanistan is only making everything worse for everyone. And there are real, tangible, serious impingements on my freedom (conventionally defined) that are happening right now, in America, courtesy of the American government. So which is worse, what the Taliban hypothetically would do if they were (hypothetically) to take over America, or what the US government is already goin?
In the meantime, for my part, if I wanted to be a “pansy” (your offensive choice of word), I would go with the American flow and cheer on “our men and women in uniform.” So no, I’m not a pansy. As a free citizen, I don’t want soldiers urinating on dead people in my name.
That’s the end of this particular conversation as far as I’m concerned, since I’m sure I won’t convince you of my point of view or vice versa. Do feel free to comment on other articles published here in the future.
Regards, Ethan
The utility of the Afghan mission, to America and others is open to debate. And if indeed it is doing more harm than good, it should be called back. But to scorn your soldiers for something that is not at all unusual in a war environment is akin to denigrating all the hard work they are doing. ‘Thanklessness’ sums it up.
I tend to agree with Ethan’s point of view.
War does strange things to people, granted. Both sides have committed excesses, agreed. That does not make it acceptable. And never will. I cannot claim to know better, for I have not walked in other people’s shoes, but I do believe that standing up for what is right regardless of who is doing it is commendable, and justifying wrongs because they might not be unusual is reprehensible.
@Aamir: I’m Pakistani. But my favorite author is American. He’s called Mark Twain.
I quote two political opinions of his:
“… but if there is a stain on that flag it ought not to be honored, even if it is our flag. The true citizenship is to protect the flag from dishonor — to make it the emblem of a nation that is known to all nations as true and honest and honorable. And we should forever forget that old phrase — ‘My country, right or wrong, my country!’ ” (True Patriotism at the Children’s Theater, 1907)
“Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel” (Education and Citizenship speech, 1908)
I think Ethan Casey and Mark Twain would have got along very well, had they known each other.
Urination aside, I wanted to share some thoughts on the “Muslims in America: Time for a Movement?”; probably should have done it on the actual article but anyway here we go…
This is just an observation, not an opinion: Most Muslims living in the west feel the need to be recognized differently, by their demeanor, attire, appearance, self-imposed isolation, and general behavior. They just seem not to be able to assimilate and expect some sort of special treatment. Well guess what? They got it!
[Opinions start here] They forget that religious freedom doesn’t mean “In Your Face” – keep it to yourself by all means as it’s a private matter, no PDR (Public Display of Religion) please. While it’s great to have those rights and freedoms, but announcing your presence in that context is counter productive. Also Islam is not a culture (there is no such thing as Islamic clothing, however nuns may disagree) nor a religion, it’s supposed-to be a way of life – but again that’s a whole different discussion.
The point I am trying to make [which I suck at] is assimilate first, accept the environment, mixup casually and drop that baggage of religious projection [trim that beard, lose that gucci hijab, and any such identifiers] – then there will be no need for a Movement. Out of sight out of mind; do whatever as no one is bothered. Oh while at it, do lots of good things, and I mean lots so that the name Akhmed (or Achmed) is associated with goodness and not a dead terrorist (Look up: Jeff Dunham).
But again who am I to suggest anything to anyone, I have meager mind wanting simpler things. Oh one more thing, the urination part, could it be that the US and NATO forces are out of diapers due to supply blockade from Pakistan? I heard that they wear diapers during combat, but am not sure. Anyway, no Movement!
Mahvesh
That’s propaganda. Who gave you authority to define what constitutes a ‘stain’ on the flag and what doesn’t? We see the same tool being employed by liberals in the West, when they insist that the existence of purely White neighborhoods/communities or universities somehow constitutes a national ‘disgrace’. Emotional manipulation based on unfounded moral absolutes is how clear cut objectives are made hazy, and then people get lost in a mire of pointless issues, while losing sight of real ones.
Aamir,
I quote your comments:
“But to scorn your soldiers for something that is not at all unusual in a war environment is akin to denigrating all the hard work they are doing. ‘Thanklessness’ sums it up.”
“Emotional manipulation based on unfounded moral absolutes is how clear cut objectives are made hazy, and then people get lost in a mire of pointless issues, while losing sight of real ones.”
You don’t think that your first statement is founded on two (dare I say unfounded?) moral absolutes: (1) Appreciate our soldiers’ hard work no matter what (2) Be thankful? And of-course this statement is not emotionally manipulative at-all?
Let us agree that the behaviour of the Marines in question is not unusual in a war environment. Once upon a time, in the civilized West, domestic violence was not unusual in a married environment. In-fact, it was so usual that it was legal. Now, do you think that either attitudes or the law would have changed if people decided that because this was totally usual (ie normal) in a married environment, scorning wife-beaters would be akin to denigrating all the good work married men did in a marriage (eg earning money and providing for their children)?
If you find the behaviour of your marines totally acceptable and would like it to continue, then you are very welcome to be “grateful” to them and to continue admiring them for the wonderful job they are doing in Afghanistan. However, if you would prefer your soldiers to display a higher level of behaviour, you will have to accept that this behaviour must be condemned and the soldiers in question disciplined.
I’m not American. “(1) Appreciate our soldiers’ hard work no matter what.” I didn’t say that. I said show appreciation where its due. In case of the American soldiers in Afghanistan, it is. “(2) Be thankful?”. Yes. Because of the service they are doing to America. A morality that doesn’t do any service to you, but is nevertheless held as true is an ‘unfounded morality’. Like ‘always be nice to everyone’, or ‘distribute all your wealth equally’.
I’m not entirely sure about the American presence’s impact on Pakistan, which is where I live. I’d rather have them pack up immediately and go home, then fight Taliban on our own with American military and economic assistance. But that’s too impractical considering the fact that we’re not practically a country, but a crowd huddled into one geographic delineation. I’m just allergic to liberal whining over non-issues, wherever it comes from.
Aamir, you really believe this:
“A morality that doesn’t do any service to you, but is nevertheless held as true is an ‘unfounded morality’. Like ‘always be nice to everyone’, or ‘distribute all your wealth equally’.”
Well, I hope I never meet you in real life. In-fact, I hope your parents and siblings don’t have very much wealth for you to inherit of them because your sort of morality would enable you to murder them if you thought it would benefit (ie provide you a service) you.
It quite makes me wish you were American!
My morality is based almost entirely on my love for my family. Happiness to me is seeing my family enjoy their lives. For them I will both give my own life and take someone else’s. A good deed to me is, in large part, anything that brings my family happiness, because that in turn makes me happy. So no, I wouldn’t enjoy wealth and riches if they came to me at the cost of my family.
The point I was trying to make is that a morality based on “does it provide a service to oneself” will justify even the murder of one’s own family, if one can benefit from it.
In-fact, Machiavelli, who is the most famous proponent of this morality,basically described the political system surrounding him — a system in which immediate family members were, indeed, killed for the sake of power.
Since human beings need to justify their actions, if only to themselves, this moral principle is a very dangerous one. It can allow people to justify anything. In-fact, this is the morality you yourself have turned to in order to justify marines urinating on dead bodies.
To make the implications even more concrete. You say your happiness lies in seeing your family enjoy their lives. Well, if you thought they could enjoy their lives more if you killed your neighbour, there is nothing at-all in this moral system to prevent this action.
Let me point out that I am using you as an example to draw out the implications of the moral principles you have used to oppose Ethan’s point of view. I am not making a personal judgment about you — I have no idea who or what you are as a person.
My initial comment was posted as a humorous illustration of the implications of your statement. It was a way to side-step the boring lecture I have now provided above. Unfortunately, you took the comment very personally, so I have now provided both the lecture and the clarification of my first comment.
For my own future reference, I will now keep in mind the old adage,”Haste makes Waste”, control my initial impulse to laziness and simply write out in detail my boring arguments for/against a certain stance!
On a lighter note, why don’t you go as ‘Mehwish’, which is the usual spelling of your name? Just curious.
On topic. “Since human beings need to justify their actions, if only to themselves, this moral principle is a very dangerous one. It can allow people to justify anything.”
So? That’s called being honest to yourself.
By the way, I didn’t ‘oppose’ Ethan’s point of view. I find urinating on dead people quite tacky. Its just that given the context, its a non-issue.
@AAmir
We’ll agree to disagree on the topic.
Also, this forum hasn’t been set up to discuss me, so you’ll just have to swallow your curiousity.
Best,
Mahvesh
Am a soldier presently in Afghan. And I agree that our soldiers shouldn’t display such behavior. It is unacceptable to behave this manner. And yes they should be punishing for such. However for those who have never put the uniform on. I think one need to step back and take a look at one yourself. First he that is without flaw cast the first stone. We all have done things that weren’t appropriate, and regret it later. In most cases we learn from our foolish behaviors
Second, these young soldiers are the reason you can write your comments freely, for without us, 911 would be happening more regular. So Mr.E.C This quote of “The next time I’m in a U.S. airport and the passengers break out in applause when the gate agent or flight attendant congratulates “our men and women in uniform,” I’ll remember this incident.” This thought is sad, because I just saw six marines in a box go home to their family, so you can spend time with yours. They will never get to write again, or voice their opinion. So if you want to judge the bad judgment of these soldiers, and sum up their full character, may you should not forget they can make bad decision too. For sum doesn’t make the whole. For maybe they made a bad decision when they join the service for our country to protect YOU! Along with all the others who judge soldiers when they fall short, and make bad human decision. That we all have made. I often wonder for all the people who talk about freedom and what we soldiers should and shouldn’t do, where would they be when us men and woman step back and say’ Okay since you got the answer and the bombs and bullets are flying, you fight for our country. Who would stand up then?
@ derome:
LOL! The bombs and bullets are flying in Afghanistan. Your comment would be appropriate if you were an Afghan Marine. He would truly be defending his country. Rule of thumb: If you are fighting in a country different from your own, it means you are the “attacker”, not the “defender”
In fact, if all American Marines stepped back right now, no American family would be affected. Which, of-course, has been acknowledged by the American government — it intends to leave Afghanistan in 2014, doesn’t it? After doing a deal with (O MY GOD!) the Taliban. Who happen to be the same people who were in power when the USA attacked Afghanistan.
Sorry, I’m wrong about “No American family being affected” The families of the Marines would be affected. Their children would not return home in bodybags.
By the way, 9/11 occurred when the American Army (including its marines) was stationed in America. It was completely unable to defend America then. Now that it is dispersed all over the world, it isprobably MUCH less able to defend America from more 9/11s. So, actually, your actions – and the actions of marines like you – have made America more vulnerable to more 9/11s. A disservice to America, don’t you think?
Everybody has right to discuss the point of view what they have in their mind. Some people will agree, some will not.
My only thinking is that whatever happened in Libya is right or wrong that is not my concern. My only concern is that how the people are living now. They living better or before. In same way Afghanistan and Iraq. US is spending annually $130 Billion. If they will spend little amount of this in Afghanistan they can win the people hearts. But burning Holy Quran is totally sick-minded people work.
I’m taking little away from the article. Before Taliban was terrorists; now US is calling them they are not terrorist because might be there is deal going that will solve US problems in Afghanistan. Killing innocent people in Afghanistan, Iraq then how can you think there will be no reaction will come or you don’t have to confront with them. What war is this? Which Terrorist you are talking about?
Who is really getting benefits from this war?
It is all double standard game that’s it.
Now in Libya there is civil war, they are fighting with each other so again who is taking benefits and about people of Libya? I think that they were living better than before as compare to now, because Ghaddifi was good or not but poeple of Libya were living better than before.